How do you bring out the best in others?
By seeing where the energy lies, and by having discussions about the future. A lot of people have their energy on sustainability. People really enjoy working on that. That is regardless of what the politicians think about that, those companies will continue to crash.
What do you want to change about the status quo?
We pay too little attention to the enormous impact of our consumer society. That is the status quo that I want to change. A lot of people don't know where to start. I try to address that change and make it a top priority at all the companies I visit, to include it in every meeting, every debate, every discussion about strategy. That is my mission.
How do you explain what you do to a child?
I say I meet a lot. Actually, I'm a professional conference attendant. People immediately find that very boring. Then I'll name one of the companies I work for, and depending on the age of the child, I'll choose the nicest company. Then I say that I served on the Supervisory Board at Staatsbosbeheer, or the Red Cross, or the World Wildlife Fund. There are always a few social issues in my portfolio that I can mention, but after that, people quickly like it.
My role is to see if what a company does is right and good. At the time when de Volkskrant made the Top 200 Most Influential Dutch People, I was called multi-commissioner. As long as the list existed, I've been in it, with that name, because I was one of the first to combine various commissariats — and didn't start doing it until after I was 65, as was usual before.
What is the art of good meetings?
Knowing you have something to contribute. When you're at a meeting where you have nothing to do, you're going to be really bored. And when other people have nothing to do there, they're not only going to get bored, they're also going to torpedo things. Then you won't get much further. You have to see if you're talking about the right things together. Good meetings also mean listening a lot, and keeping a close eye on your role. Are you talking about the right things in your own role? This way, you avoid interfering with everything.
It often happens that a woman says something and the man who comes after her repeats her idea — but then gets the credits.
Former female colleagues had warned me about that, but that doesn't bother me much. I've taught myself how to do an intervention in a certain way: I stay calm and sometimes even reduce my voice volume a bit. You have to have the right timing and then make your point clearly. I'm pretty compact, I'm not into very broad stories. When I plan an intervention, I prepare it properly. Then I no longer look at minor errors in the meeting documents, but only at what image comes out and what is important for me to discuss. Then I'll take my time.
What's the best leadership advice you've ever received?
Once when I was incredibly busy, someone said: add something else. Then you should limit yourself to the main points. I can deal with details, but only if I think they are important.
Is a lot of energy wasted in meetings?
A whole lot. People can sometimes keep giving their opinion endlessly, even if it's actually not relevant to the outcome of the meeting. As chairman, I try to limit that. Sometimes, at the beginning of such a meeting, I give everyone present a word so that everyone feels heard, so you can move on much more efficiently afterwards.
In which situation did you really show guts?
The work as a supervisor always takes place behind closed doors. You sit in the back seat, so the guts you show stay indoors. It is often about the functioning of people. At higher levels, it's about the right people in the places, the right teams. And there is a lot of personal hassle around that. I also sometimes made my wallet available when something happened that I didn't think was right. In the end, everyone supported me. I didn't find it scary to do it, but waving your wallet is never so helpful. It is a last resort. You have to be mentally capable of it, but if you do it too often, it becomes a trick.
Actually, you should try to prevent such a situation.
Sometimes you find out too late that people are doing things they shouldn't be doing. I always assume the good thing about people, that we are on the same side, but as a commissioner, you are also trained to see where things go wrong. I often ask directors: suppose a journalist comes by who would put a spotlight on your company, what happens then? So everything is correct, do you have a story to go with it? Superficially, such a question is easy to answer, after all, a board of directors also asks itself regularly. But at some point, you're going to look deeper. Take Tata Steel or Chemours, who are working on all kinds of environmental permits. The government always lags behind public opinion when it comes to licensing. You like more from the government than from the public. So, as a company, you can't hide behind the argument that you're following the rules. You have to anticipate what the citizen expects of you.
Because even if you color within the lines, you can do a lot.
Exactly. Our strawberries contain five types of poison to prevent one species from finding more than the maximum permitted concentration. That does not mean that our strawberries are healthy.
How do you bring out the best in others?
By seeing where the energy lies, and by having discussions about the future. A lot of people have their energy on sustainability. People really enjoy working on that. That is regardless of what the politicians think about that, those companies will continue to crash. My role is to see if companies use their energy in the right way, not without obligation. For example, at the World Wildlife Fund. What is the most important thing for nature now? These are the rainforests. Then focus the whole focus on that. Then you will do what suits the soul of a company. That's what I like most: when you see that the management feels connected to the company's hardcore mission. You can feel that, then the entire organization is included. Then everything will fly.
What is absolutely non-negotiable for you?
Dishonesty and untruthfulness. I am fairly moralistic; a better world needs to be worked on. If I notice that this is being affected, I can be quite sharp verbally. That's why I feel it in myself, in my heart and gut. I also coach others to be alert to this. If you notice that your body is getting restless, it's essential to listen to it and do something about it.
What do you want to change about the status quo?
If you read all the reports on climate change and follow all the geopolitical and social developments, you'll lose all confidence. The problems are so big that you would love to look away and just book a vacation in the sun or put air conditioning in your home. But we owe it to the next generation to keep up the courage and work for a better world. We've let dollar signs be thrown in our eyes like sand. It has all been about money and not about what is of value. We don't give enough thought to the enormous impact of our consumer society. That is the status quo that I want to change. A lot of people don't know where to start. I try to address that change and make it a top priority at all the companies I visit, to include it in every meeting, every debate, every discussion about strategy. That is my mission.
